Dave

Do you know what the cost is for one that would be good for a 6wt line???

Nice looking reel, but I really think you can go way overboard with some fishing equipment.  A reel is one of those items that you can do well with something not so top of the line.  I fish a 6'6" glass rod for 4 wt and use a Pflueger that cost me $45 from Bill Franke, this is a USA reel and it works just fine for this rod and the fishing I do with it, no need for $200 reel on this setup.

Koda what is your take on this.

See Yah

Lee

Dave

I am not surprised at the cost.  I think Koda has a reel that will function just as well for about 25% of the cost of that reel.  With that savings maybe you can get someone like Joel Anderson to make you your dream Bamboo Fly Rod.

See Yah

Lee

Ok Lee & Dave, I'm a little late on the trigger, but here goes.

I got into it BIGTIME with Orvis and Ross. Orvis intentionally attempts to con the fly fishing community with imports under the pretense of Made in America. Whether by omission or implication, the result is the same. I, and a good number of fly fishers are on to them, and it  IS reflecting in their sales. I know for fact some of my dealers have quit selling Orvis products because of it as well.

Enter Varmint No 2, Ross. They were at one time just plain ole Ross. Then they decided to change the name to Ross International. The logic here was to open an umbrella where they could import and really mix up the product lines without declaring where the goods were manufactured. Once again, deception by omission of declaration. This is one of the reasons I LOVE LL Bean in Maine. Sure they import, but they say on every product that is imported that it IS imported, and the retail price reflects it. I do not have a problem with that. The fisherman on a budget can make his own decision on the product.

In my experience, when LL Bean puts their name on a product, as well as Cabelas, you can take it to the bank it's at least good, and you'll get good service from it.  If it's defective, both will replace it no questions asked.  I also know that in both companies, they have a "round eye" presence in the factories, shall we say guiding and controlling quality as the Chinese have no quality ethics at all.

The way I got on to Ross, was a dude on Evil Bay selling a Ross reel as American made when I knew it was a Chink made jobber.  When I called him out on it he swore he did not know and was told by Ross it was a USA made reel and begged me to contact Ross. Of course I did.  After some shucking and jiving the Ross cat finally fessed up that it was made in China. However, they were under no obligation to  disclose the manufacturing location as they had moved a massive amount of machine tools to China and set up operations there he said.  OK, how does that get to be our problem ?

A child that is brought up proper is taught at an early age not to steal, not to lie, and not to deceive. Now put that child in a position of temptation by leaving a candy jar within eyeshot and remove the adult supervision. Human nature will kick in, and sooner or later the lid will be off the jar and little Johnny will have chocolate mitts and lips. The first time the lad does it he'll be extremely nervous, but if there are no repercussions he'll go to the well again. Over time, left unchecked, it becomes a new standard and he become comfortable with the deed.

This analogy is quite similar to modern day manufacturing in China by US companies. We have to assume that at least some of them have had proper upbringing.  So they probably initially feel guilty about taking away more American jobs. But there is no supervision in place to say no, and the lure of the fast and easy buck looms bright in their greedy little minds.  After all, why make $25 selling a fly reel when you can make $300. Soon, any guilt is forgotten as the corporate coffer fills, and the temptation to bring it to the next level comes into view.

I have spent my life in Manufacturing in the capacity of an Engineer. If you drop a blueprint on a table I need only to look at it briefly and I can tell you what it will cost to manufacture that part within +/- 5 cents, here in the US, and in China.  With that said, the Ross F1 will have an OEM (Original Equipment Manufacture) price of less than $75.  The only reason I even have it that high is the initial Engineering and setup costs. Once production is in full swing the entire reel manufactured in China will be less than $50

At the retail price Dave announced one need not be a mathematician to see the blatant rape that we are being exposed to by unscrupulous American companies.  And these are the same ones that would like more tax breaks so they can hire a token American worker or two while they continue to manufacture abroad. The solution here is quite simple. If you migrate production to China the import tax on those products should be at a level to be cost prohibitive.  Those taxes should be used to put real American jobs back on line.

For those that don't know, I am an importer. I get product from China, Korea, Japan, and India. Very little is sourced domestic simply because I can not find American companies that produce fly fishing gear that is affordable.  Believe me, I've tried and continue to do so.

A base cost on a product easily doubles when the shipping is factored in.  The Rep has already doubled the price by the time I get his quote. 50% of the product goes in the junk barrel when it gets here because I will not ever sell anything that is not up to standard. Then there is the Import license and the import fees. So if I were selling that Ross F1 I'd retail it for $125 or there abouts and would stand to make a $18 to $20 profit on it.

Though it may be a "good" reel at $125, IMHO, it's priced to high even at that, and is not needed.  Skeleton reels are a dime a dozen these days no matter who is making them.  The man taking on big salmon, tarpon, and some of the bill fish on a fly rod do in fact need a fadeless drag system. Here again, it's available and has been in the Tibor line and some other high end AMERICAN made reels.  So, Ross has managed to reinvent the wheel in an attempt to make a killing on the less informed as far as I'm concerned.

In the world of trout fishing, our Grandfathers, and even some of our Fathers for those of us who are of that age, have managed to pile up more and larger fish on simple click pawl reels. Some as basic as the wonderful Pflueger Medalist.  Which by the way are now all being manufactured in China and are worthless. The pawls are as brittle as corn chips and snap off on the first run of an over sized Kiver. Find an older Pflueger and you will find bliss.

The metrics of fly casting are done through co ordination of a fly rod and a caster with a line. At no point does the reel come into play in a cast.  Hence, the fly reel is nothing more than a line keeper at this stage of the game.  It takes an exceptional trout to pull drag on a fly reel these days, and a lot of them are brought to net by simple hand lining them in. Given a choice of a palming rim or a drag system that needs frigging around with a knob on the back of the reel, I'll take the palming rim every time. You can react to a run in an instant and back it off just as fast if the fish bores for the deep.

Yes, I do offer the M60 fly reel, so named after the M60 machine gun. It's a sharp looking inexpensive reel that works like a Swiss watch.  If you drop it out of your truck and run it over just dust it off and go fishing.  If you have to club a pissed off bear with it do the deed and then continue to go fishing.

This has been a long winded post, but as your Moderator in the gear section it is my place to arm our close knit family with the facts. Now you have them, you are informed, and........you can do as you darn well please

I have no more words on the subject, lest of course ya'll have more questions