Quote by: Kype

.......... I am too old and cantankerous to fit in with that bunch.  I just want to go fishing.  I really don't care about money; I don't even check my pay stub to see if I was paid correctly!  I'm not a fan of Capitalism. 

Bobby

 

And that Bobby, is why you and I get along so well  

You'll be delighted to know I got a 270 rifle, a Marlin Darlin Bolt gun.  I can't afford no more busted bones

Bobby

We banter back and forth on the subject, always in a good way.  Rather than pollute the other thread I figured I'd open up a new one focused on the subject. Perhaps another trigger happy nut will join us in the conversations.

I think all of us who hunt serious have a favorite caliber or two.  One near and dear to my heart is the 35 Rem in the Marlin 336. Why? I killed the biggest buck of my life with one.  It's low on recoil, more than accurate enough (much credit to Marlin with the Micro Groove barrels), and like the Swede, it kills way outside its paper ballistics.

With that said, I hunted an area this year that long since has needed some serious chainsaw work done in it.  I'm talking in a Cedar forest with trees so big you can get a 300 yard shot if you line it up between the trees. There's no understory about as the Cedars have shaded out anything from growing.  And the deer are thick in there. Hence the 270.

As you know, I was a big fan of the 378 Weatherby Magnum.  It is one of, if not the wickedest killers on the planet. The rifles are sick money, the ammo as sick, the recoil is above most mortals, and these days I'd need a gun bearer to carry it for me. But, I will stand my ground and say, it would be my gun/cal of choice for moose as it kills them faster than they can blink.  Not to say other cals won't, just a matter of how long it takes em to realize they've been eblitcherated

Of the 270, I hunted with a chap who was as in love with the caliber as much as Jack O'Connor was. He shot a Russian boar at around 35 paces with a 130 grainer (factory) and the off side exit hole was large enough to easily pass a soft ball through.  Said rooter circled around a couple of times like a dog chasing its tail and promptly fell over void of heart, lungs, and any blood that was in it.  I have to believe a moose hit likewise at that distance would be in a rather deep pile of moose poop.

Now about the 6.5x55 Swede

Soon after its introduction in 1894 as the military caliber for Sweden and Norway, the 6.5x55 found its way into the hunting fields of Europe, and then the world. Highly accurate, it also became a favorite caliber for target shooting. Its success was not based on any particularly sensational specification, but rather on its solid performance on game and its mild recoil. The latter makes for accurate shooting and good bullet placement, always the most important factor in killing power.

RCBS reports that, while never a best seller, 6.5x55 reloading die sales have consistently been in the top 30. Surplus 6.5x55 military rifles appeared in the American market after the end of WW II and led to the discovery of the cartridge by many American hunters and shooters. Eventually Remington, Ruger, and Winchester felt compelled to chamber their popular bolt action hunting rifles for the caliber.

The 6.5x55 is an exceptionally easy cartridge for which to develop reloads. It usually gives good accuracy and performance with practically any suitable bullet and powder. Most owners of modern 6.5x55 rifles do choose to reload their own ammunition. Factory loads for the 6.5x55 are perfectly adequate for hunting, but they are kept fairly mild in consideration of the many old military rifles in the caliber. The SAAMI mean maximum pressure limit for the 6.5x55 is 46,000 cup.

Most shooters who try a 6.5x55 rifle are impressed with its mild recoil and report, fine accuracy, and outstanding killing power. Killing power far in excess of that normally expected for what is, after all, a fairly small caliber.

Many North American shooters recommend nothing smaller than .27 caliber for use as an all-around big game rifle, yet Europeans have known for decades that 6.5mm rifles can kill even very large game reliably with well placed bullets. This has been proven all over the world.

The secret of the 6.5mm's success appears to be the great sectional density of its hunting weight bullets. Good sectional density (in an adequately designed bullet) means good penetration, and the long 6.5mm bullets penetrate to where an animal lives.

120 grains is the lightest 6.5mm bullet normally used for big game hunting. The sectional density (SD) of a .264" bullet weighing 120 grains is .247! That is well in excess of the .205 or so recommended for deer size game, and approximately equivalent to the 165 grain .30 caliber bullet. That is widely considered to be the "all-around" bullet for .30 caliber rifles. In the 6.5x55, 120 grains is considered a lightweight bullet for long range shooting of antelope and deer. Top reloads drive this bullet (in modern rifles) to anywhere from 2800-3000 fps.

The 129 grain 6.5mm bullet has a SD of .264, between that of the 170 grain (.256) and 180 grain (.271) .30 caliber bullets. The 125-129 grain bullets can be driven to 2700-2900 fps for flat trajectory, and make good general purpose bullets in the 6.5x55.

The most popular game bullet among 6.5mm fans is the 140 grain. It has a SD of .287, about the same as the 190 grain match bullets made for long range .30 caliber target rifles or the 160 grain 7mm bullets intended for deep penetration in heavy game. Typical reloads drive the 140 grain bullet at 2600-2800 fps. A good shot with a "puny" 6.5x55 Swede rifle loaded with 140 grain bullets can take most of the big game animals in North America.

If it is a herd of pachyderms that needs to be thinned, use the long 160 grain bullet. 160 grain RN solids (loaded in the somewhat smaller 6.5x54 Mannlicher cartridge) are what the famous British ivory hunter WDM Bell used to kill the many of the 1000 or so elephants he shot in East Africa. A 6.5mm 160 grain bullet has a SD of .328, about the same as the 220 grain .30 bullet (also used successfully on elephants) and greater than the SD of any other commonly encountered bullet except the 500 grain .45 caliber, which was designed specifically for killing elephants. So, you see, when I suggested the 160 grain 6.5mm bullet as the answer to a pachyderm problem I wasn't entirely kidding! Reloads for a modern 6.5x55 rifle can drive the 160 grain bullet at 2450-2500 fps for serious punch at woods ranges.

Recoil energy from an 8 pound 6.5x55 rifle shooting the 140 grain bullet as factory loaded amounts to about 12 ft. lbs. That is pretty moderate for an all-around rifle.

Bell is on record as toasting many a tusker with s 6.5 which says the man was up on his game and knew how to shoot. I regret to say however, I do not consider the sub 45 cal rifles as "proper" medicine for modern day elephants.

Ah you say, but an elephant is an elephant no matter his steps on the earth in time. True. Howsomever, human population has much  expanded since Bell did his deeds.  I saw a chap torch a huge tusker on the Sportsman channel and wondered in my own mind why anyone would want to shoot an elephant, save of course one to say he did it, and perhaps for the ivory.

I was soon corrected in my thoughts when I found out from a Ranger in Mozambique that modern day pachyderms just love to feast in the gardens of the peasants. Of course once they do the crops are history.  Too, natives attempting to run off the garden flattening  critters are looked upon as lowly insects and promptly stomped into the ground and killed.  Now it makes sense. Lock & load and torch the suckers!  My source also says the natives are rather fond of elephant meat so it's a food chain thing. Cool.

As to your new build of another Swede I would say you have all the bases covered. That rifle should be a real shooter.  I can't wait to see pictures of the final job.

Ok, I'm handing it off to you, do me proud

Koda You covered it quite well.  My dad drilled all those points into me as a boy.  It was well expressed and I am sure others will have their eyes opened to possible future rifle purchases. 

I have a liking for European rifles and guns.  I have owned Sako, Mauser (military conversions) and a Beretta 20Ga. 686 O/U and a Sig 9mm.  Once I owned a Win M70 .270 which took my best deer but I hated the rifle and replaced it with a M96 Swede 6.5 X 55 converted by Kimber and still shoot but I have always loved the M98 action.  In among my dad's guns I found the the G33/40 action he wanted to build a rifle on and never did.  It will handle most any non Mag cartridge but I truly love the clean killing of the Swede hence I opted to give dad closure to the project.  Left to dad it would have ended up yet another .30-06!  I guess if you were a WWII Marine you developed an appreciation for the .30-06 with good reason as he took down two Zero's with his twin 30's from the back of the SBD Dauntless dive bomber.  

The first buck I shot with my M96 Swede was facing me head long at a slight angle.  He was about 130 yards away.  I had time to sit down and put the 140gr Federal factory load at the point where the base of the neck joins the rib cage the very end of the brisket.  The bullet never hit a bone and passed through the heart, liver, paunch, intestine, exited the abdominal cavity and ran under the hide down the inside of the right leg and stopped at the knee yet the heart and liver was not loaded with blood shot as would have been the case with my old Sako .25 06 or other hot long range cartridge.  With the ballistics we can get with a strong bolt action the range is such that it can do shots normally reserved for .270 Win / 7mm Remington (.280) or .284 Win. with lighter bullets as you point out, with less recoil and muzzle blast and do it very well.  Just look at he Barnes 6.5mm bullets some time; like a pencel.    

Here is another thought for people.  The moderate velocities give the 6.5 X 55 Swede a long barrel life.  Many barrels are not consistent in diameter measures only by air gage but the bullet can jump from one tight spot to the next leading to poor accuracy.  When the bullet is as long as the 140gr 6.5 there is little jump as because the bullet has such a long barring surface which adds to the inherent accuracy to the 6.5mm bullets.  The problem with the 6.5 is the perception held by many hunters who only see the muzzle velocity of cartridges.  This thinking has been encouraged by the US gun manufacturers.  They have tried to push the 6.5mm bullet to high muzzle velocities and ended up with rifles that burn the barrels out in 2,000 rounds or less with wicked throat erosion.

The 6.5 X 55 Swede is not the rifle for everyone it is however a good choice for those of us who understand rifles a bit more than the advertised muzzle velocity.  For me it is fine and I can handle it for a 330 yard shot which is about the limit of my shooting ability no matter what rifle I have in my hands.  Rather not have a mule kicking me if I were to take such a shot on game.  

I have taken the prize at turkey shoots a number of times with the old M96 against shooters with hot Weatherby and the like rifles.  You should see the look in their faces.  I got my rifle whole sale for $199.99.  It was built by Carl Gustoff's arsenal in 1905.

Bobby

i like all the new technology on all the weapons of our time but nothing beats the oldies i have always liked old stuff it worked then and can still work now .(much better built in my opinion)  they have taken the learning curve way down on the bows just about anyone can grab a bow off the shelf and shoot it pretty good with some practice . wasn't so even when i started just 22 years ago . back then bows were complicated pieces of equipment , it took dedication and lots of practice to stay good and get the performance needed to take down wild animal. i have the urge to get a long bow or recurve and harvest a deer . any deer will do would be a trophy for me , not easy to do ... LOl and thats how they used to do it all the time .

just like my comments along the lines of gadjets and such.... you must use and practice until you can consistantly hit what you are aiming at and knowing your limitatiions..... marketing makes people think they buy a $1000. bow they will kill deer like the big names out in the hunting industry. what scares me the most is these guys on TV taking 60 yard shots on game... yep can be done i shoot out to 60 yards for fun but never ever would consider letting one go that far in actual hunting situation 35 yards is my limit even though i can put 6 out of 6 arrows in the killl zone out to 50 yards. people buy into this and actually think its the bow that allows them to shoot that far ..... it way more then the bow as you all know .... I am sure same goes on the long 1000 yard shots they ahve on TV on game , to me thats not hunting but thats my own person thoughts nothing against them its leagal and they can shoot.

in my not so long ago younger years i used to shoot stick bows and was very good at it was at least to 15 yards always hit pretty close to where i aimed , i just never pursued it due to the "IN THING" which was compunds at the time went and shot a few shops around the state to try them out but never could afford something i would be proud to own. i have plans to get one in the near future and start shooting , see how it goes , i will not just take it into the woods expecting to shoot  an animal until i know for sure i am confident in my ability i owe that to the quarry .

Back to the guns i was thinking about it and i am very interested in snipers and watch alot of sniper type programs (youtube has some great stuff about the subject) Sniper was the best movie ...... i see its purpose for what they use it for and marvel at the skill of these guys . I was thinking its funny how i enjoy that aspect of shooting but not hunting of game animals , even though i realize they use deer and other animals as targets to practice on some of the bases around the country. i really enjoy how they have to be undetected and make incredible shots while keeping it mentally together , they see the people they shoot die threw the scope. here is the link to the one i fouond the most interesting .